justice for mike brown, justice for us all

21 Responses to “justice for mike brown, justice for us all”

1. Anonymous November 24, 2014

   Trayvon Martin?

   Reply
• youngmormonfeministguest November 24, 2014

  Thank you for pointing out that error. We have corrected the list to add Trayvon Martin.

  Reply
• New Iconoclast November 25, 2014

  Trayvon Martin was not killed by police.

• youngmormonfeministguest November 25, 2014

  thanks for pointing that out, New Iconoclast. Edits have been made.

2. justice for mike brown, justice for us all | Well-Behaved Mormon Woman November 25, 2014

   […] By youngmormonfeministguest by Hermia Lyly The following is partial list of unarmed black men killed by police officers in the US (credit to abagond.wordpress.com). It does not include… …read more […]

   Reply
3. Pete November 25, 2014

   Why is Trayvon Martin on there? He was not killed by a police officer.

   Reply
• youngmormonfeministguest November 25, 2014

  Right, thanks. Sorry for the confusion, it’s been a long night. Edits have been made.

  Reply
4. Locke November 27, 2014

   So in your opinion, what is “justice” for Mike Brown?

   Reply
• youngmormonfeministguest November 30, 2014

  I’m assuming that you’re not being facetious or looking to start a debate, and that your question is genuine. If that’s the case, then I believe that my “opinion” of what justice is for Mike Brown doesn’t matter. Justice is not a matter of opinion. Considering that Mike Brown’s death is not a clear-cut case of self-defense (as any impartial forensic expert, lawyer, or police officer worth their salt would agree), an indictment is the obvious step to take in order for the American justice system to do its work. Darren Wilson should have been indicted, not because it’s “my opinion,” but because statistically, when an investigation has as many conflicting testimonies as this one does, an indictment is inevitable.

  For more information: http://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/ferguson-michael-brown-indictment-darren-wilson/

  Reply
• Locke December 1, 2014

  Justice is to indict Darren Wilson not because of the evidence presented in his case but because of statistics?

  First, there are no statistics to compare to this case. As the article you cite suggests, most prosecutors screen cases for both probable cause and likelihood of winning at trial before bringing a case before a grand jury.

  Second, those prosecuting offices that do indict even when they have little likelihood of winning at trial have been heavily criticized by civil rights advocates. Indictments destroy lives and put even innocent people in the difficult position of waiting in prison for 2 years until their day in court or just taking the plea deal that offers probation or significantly less time. This practice is especially harmful to minorities who have disproportionately higher arrest rates.

  Third, testimonies may have been conflicting but only those testimonies that supported a narrative of self-defense matched the physical evidence.

• youngmormonfeministguest December 3, 2014

  I knew that I was being too hopeful by assuming that your question was asked in good faith.

  I’m not going to waste my time debating with trolls. If you’re looking to fight with people about Ferguson, then there are many other people on the internet willing to debate with you in comments sections. But I’m not going to engage with you unless you are open to learning more about this issue from a different viewpoint, a viewpoint that you might open your eyes to other possibilities, even if you don’t agree with them. After talking to many people about this issue and other racial issues, I’ve learned that unless the person I am talking to shows a sincere willingness to be educated about a different perspective, it’s usually a waste of time to try to debate them. Debate simply doesn’t change minds; most often it makes people surer of their own beliefs. Arguing with you on this is not going to make the world safer for people of color.

  I will say this, because as an ally, I owe it to my friends who are people of color: trying to argue about the grand jury trial of Darren Wilson in a way that ignores or separates it from racial elements of police violence against people of color is racist. It’s not as blatantly racist as some actions, but it’s still racist. As the saying goes, the new racism is denying racism. So if/when you decide to argue with someone else about this issue, don’t pretend as if race is not an issue. Pretending that race is not an issue is how we got to Ferguson in the first place.

• Locke December 3, 2014

  People who have a different point of view than you need to be “educated”? And if they present facts you disagree with, they are a “waste of time”? Does it not seem a bit hypocritical to you that everyone you speak with needs to be “open to learning more” but you do not? Instead, you may simply dismiss their perspective through ad hominem attacks such as “troll” or implied accusations of racist.

  I am truly sorry that I am a waste of your time. Debate is what our justice and entire political system is founded upon. When people engage in debates appropriately with facts, logic, and evidence — not ad hominem attacks — we come closer to the truth.

  I agree that racism is not a simple yes/no question. Racism is a wide ranging scale that we all fall on to some degree or another. But even if the grand jury was racist to whatever degree they were, how does ignoring all of the evidence and indicting Darren Wilson — destroying his and his family’s lives — bring “justice”?

  One last thing: I doubt people of color need to be infantilized and protected by you from opposing arguments they can easily shoot down themselves. Give them more credit than that.

• Anonymous December 13, 2014

  Perhaps we should all go watch Chris Rock, an African American. who gets it and when you come at a cop after robing a joint and you are assumably aggressive because of that your ganna get shot when you go at a cop. That what happens in the legal system and until you are of your pointless blog and out there risking your life then who are you to judge a police officer.

5. Katherine December 3, 2014

   Agree with Locke a million times over. Confronted with true evidence, many liberals get scared and insult the other side. Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right.

   I wonder why you didn’t include a list of unarmed white men and women killed by police. Do you believe blacks and whites are equal, or is the death of a black person somehow worse?

   Reply
• Mary December 4, 2014

  Hmm…do you all remember something called “slavery”? Let’s not ignore this painful part of history that happened for centuries. Oh, and Jim Crow laws, separate but equal policies, institutional discrimination and prejudice. Will we pretend that none of these things existed or that racial profiling isn’t real? Can we honestly say that we live in a post-racial society when men like Eric Garner are choked to death, have their deaths ruled as homicide, yet receive no justice whatsoever? Please do not sit comfortably in your seats of privilege and judge others as they mourn. Racism and oppression exist, and the more we ignore it the less we progress and the scarier the world becomes.

  Reply
• Locke December 4, 2014

  Has anyone here claimed that racism does not exist, that racial profiling is not real, or that we live in a post-racial society?

• Katherine December 4, 2014

  Mary, with all due respect, you are making a straw-man argument. No one denies slavery, no one denies Jim Crow and oppression and prejudice.

  How am I judging others? Also, what makes you say that I am privileged?

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7. L. Ann December 5, 2014

   I have idea if Darren Wilson should have been indicted, but let’s face it: neither you nor I were there during the time of slavery. A grand jury’s decision cannot be based on past deeds. That goes for the sins of white people a hundred years ago, or Brown’s arrest record from last year. Neither is relevant.

   Reply
8. latterdaytruth December 10, 2014

   There are three times as many white people killed by police officers than black. That doesn’t seem to matter.

   A police officer is killed in the line of duty every 58 hours. That doesn’t seem to matter either.

   Reply
• Anonymous December 12, 2014

  White people make up 72.5% of the United States. Black people make up 12.5% of the United States. If the statistics you spouted are correct, then police kill significantly more black people per capita than white people, as we’ve been saying.

  Reply